So now the Telegraph is reporting that the doctors caring for Michael have told his family that “only a miracle can save him”.
1) doctors, no matter their spiritual bent, do NOT talk to patient’s families about miracles saving anyone. Ever. From a practical viewpoint, this gives a patient’s family absolutely NO useful information on which to act. It provides hope, yes, but not for anything with any medical reality. And this hope will then cloud all subsequent decision-making.
A statement like this is more than ambiguous – it lets each recipient interpret it in his or her own context, the opposite of clear precise information. What would the care team mean with a statement like this? Are they saying “let’s wait a bit more for the miracle”? Or are they saying “miracles don’t happen in reality so we’re pretty much out of hope”?
I can only guess that what this report means by “save” is “recover sufficiently to have meaningful interactions with his loved ones”. So you see why this is kinda a dumb thing to say. And why it is impossible for me to imagine doctors EVER communicating like this with a grievously injured patient’s family.
If something like this WAS said, I can only try to “reverse engineer” it, and from there consider what they were saying and how it’d be said.
1) If there is now clinical, radiologic, physiologic and other data that leads to the conclusion that a resumption of any meaningful consciousness at all is impossible (see? no mention of miracles), they would be VERY unambiguous with this. In a situation like this, there must be no guesswork – NONE on the part of the medical team, who need to put the data together and reach an unquestioned and unquestionable conclusion. In this situation, ANY ambiguity in communication with the family is disastrous. They will often cling to any hope left, and this conversation is going to be, tragically, THE conversation that finally (and gently and compassionately) needs to remove all hope. This is crucial. If the message is misunderstood, it will almost inevitably lead to major problems, conflicts and tension subsequently.
Let me just say here that medical ethics allow, and virtually require, doctors to refuse to provide treatments they reasonably consider to be futile. My neighbour cannot show up at the hospital and demand that a surgeon remove her appendix. And in the above situation, where there is incontrovertible evidence of damage so severe as to make resumption of consciousness impossible, doctors can certainly undertake the process of “therapeutic de-escalation”. Even if the patient’s family insists that “everything be done”, if there is NOTHING left to be done, there is no requirement to do anything more. At that point the patient’s family can make other care arrangements. It’s obviously critical to avoid this kind of situation, so once again you see the need for perfectly clear, concise information, with no ambiguity. Families need time to accept this, whether it’s in intensive care, or oncology, or genetic anomalies, and so on. But with open honest and clear communication, this will happen.
Please note that this is NOT the situation for a patient in a persistent vegetative state, at least not necessarily. This is the situation for a patient whose condition is even WORSE. The essential point is that the impossibility of recovery has to be as certain as current medical science can be AND that this certainty be transmitted to the family.
2) if the clinical situation is desperate, but not without all hope, the family would be told this, with as close to numerical precision as possible. In a situation where there is hope, it mustn’t EVER be taken away. On the other hand, families need to know, at the most basic level, that most patients like this get better, or that a few get better, or that really VERY few do. That 60%, or 20%, or 1% get better. No talk of miracles.
As I mentioned a few posts ago, if this conversation has happened, if Michael’s family has been told that it is extremely unlikely that he recover “satisfactorily”, then it is quite possible that the “several steps of separation effect” between hospital personnel and the press could have led to this kind of language appearing in these articles.
And again, despite a day during which we’ve been told Michael is breathing on his own AND that it would take a miracle to save him, we know nothing more than we knew yesterday or the day before.
A Former F1 Doc Writes 
As far as I’m concerned, the new “statement” is totally vacuous. The true message is “we won’t tell you anything”.
I guess we won’t know the real truth until MS walks out of the hospital and SK tells us “I told you so”.
Why can’t they speak the truth? The fact that the family has muzzled the doctors speaks volumes. The family doesn’t want “us” to know the truth.
Actually, I’m getting tired of the whole scenario. It is what it is regardless of what the family or SK tells us.
I hope for the best for MS….
“We are, and remain confident, Michael will pull through and will wake up,” the statement from his agent read.
“There sometimes are small, encouraging signs, but we also know this is the time to be very patient.
“Michael has suffered severe injuries. It is very hard to comprehend for all of us that Michael, who had overcome a lot of precarious situations in the past, has been hurt so terribly in such a banal situation.
“It was clear from the start this will be a long and hard fight for Michael, and we are taking this fight on together with the team of doctors, whom we fully trust.
“The length of the process is not the important part for us.
“It is heart-warming to see how much sympathy his family is shown and I can say the family is extremely grateful for it.
“However, it should not be forgotten Michael’s family is dealing with an extremely intimate and fragile situation.
“And I would like to remind all of us Michael has always actively kept his family out of the public eye and consequently protected their private lives.
“We try to channel all the energies we have toward Michael and we firmly believe this will help him, and we believe he will also win this fight.”
Says pretty much all we need to know and confirms what some of us have said about the family’s perceived need to let the world know what THEY want us to know, when and in what detail, and not what the world at large, selfishly, demands to know.
Assuming they have been quoted correctly this tells us a lot about the families views & the known views of MS in a few words. As you mentioned this is what several had already concluded. This statement does seem to be given in a rather forced manner in order to perhaps counter a perceived demand for news from various quarters. For me the line “It is very hard to comprehend for all of us that …” is also a significant admission – but again many would have realised this to me the case (and mentioned in the blog & several comments I seem to recall).
Here is the statement
http://www.rte.ie/sport/motorsport/f1/2014/0312/601693-schumacher-shows-small-encouraging-signs/
The BBC have just reported that Sabine has released a new statement, but I can’t find it online at the moment.
What a truly nasty vile person you are Le Midi pile, most of us on the Docs blogs appreciate the time and information he gives us, so go spew somewhere else
Jan – BRAVO!!! Right on target – bullseye!!! GREAT COMMENT and you are absolutely correct about this blog too.
KC
Le Midi pile, people like you make me sick. As i said in a previous comment to you, leave Dr Gary alone and take your spew elsewhere
Mr. Sixpack
Alcohol Anonymous is a place where you can get help wherever you are on this planet. I truly wish you a happier, healthier life Joe, I sincerely do.
KC
Dear Le Midi pile:
In America “pile” usually relates to a “pile of s___t.” in addition to Gary’s response, may I also suggest that you also consider an enema?
someone wrote:
“….But in medicine and surgery, we [America] are by far one of the greatest country in the world, and this is only a fact that you have to accept despite your vanity.”
I disagree with your take on American medicine (BTW- I’m American, love my country, etc.) We may be great in medical research, but in terms of accessing and paying for medical treatment we’re currently ranked somewhere under Morocco by the World Health Organization. If you are well off in the USA you have access to fabulous medicine, but there’s a financial drop off point at which Americans DON’T receive great medicine.
Also, scientific research communities tend to be international, so thinking about research in terms of political borders doesn’t work well.
Le Midi Pile was referring to French medicine and surgery & suggested that only the US could be considered on a par with them. That said I thought Le Midi Pile’s contribution was a light hearted comedy interlude to these comments and s(he) did place their own comment in the context of “another rude French”.
That said it was a bit of a misrepresentation of What Prof Hartstein had written in his blog and I suspect that Le Midi Pile is just releasing some Gallic steam out of a sense of unfair criticism Le French Medical Team & Le French hospital may or may not be receiving in the international press & elsewhere.
That said it does seem that many of the gutter press articles are appending a random selection of stock Prof Hartstein’s quotes, whether sequitor or non-sequitor, in an attempt to add authority and legitimation to their own textual excretions.
You’re absolutely right, Jason, I DID think Midi Pile’s comment was about the USA. I think that Midi’s previous comment, “Be sure of one thing, we’re probably not the best country to manufacture cars, not the most performing one in terms of economy, we have strikes and rude people this is true….” threw me off. It all sounded so familiar. My apologies, Midi.
Hi Siara, I still think you made some fair points – importance of internationalising medical research & issues of access to medical resources and services in the US (e.g. Oscar Winning Dallas Buyers Club have indicated potential issues between Federal Drugs Agency – the Pharmaceutical Industry & access to medication). If MS had been penniless and had suffered such an injury in the US would he have received similar treatment?
Ah … the still small voice of reason!
I think this guy must work for the FIA!
You are indeed. But that isn’t my problem, as I’ve neither raised you nor must I ever be in your presence.
That said, I’m not exactly sure what you’re saying. And while I doubt that even YOU know exactly what you’re saying either, I think you might have started by making an attempt at actually reading what I write. Just take frequent breaks when your lips get tired! The only comments I’ve made about the folks taking care of Michael have been highly complimentary of their professionalism. I, along with just about every specialist in prehospital medicine I know, have severe reservations about Michael’s initial management; irrespective of your valued assessment of my qualifications, I consider them sufficient to form an opinion.
May I suggest you contact a surgeon, a French surgeon would do fine, and explore the possibility of undergoing a cholecystectomy. This might, just might, make you a bit less bilious and unpleasant.
And lastly, may I also suggest that if you DO continue reading my blog (heaven knows why you did in the first place!), please refrain from commenting unless you have something of worth to say.
In fact, just refrain from commenting period.
“I’m not exactly sure what you’re saying. And while I doubt that even YOU know exactly what you’re saying either”
You’re right, it’s worth trying to make your audience believing I’m fool than reconsidering your behaviour.
“May I suggest you contact a surgeon, a French surgeon would do fine, and explore the possibility of undergoing a cholecystectomy”
You’re such predictable … I was really expecting this kind of disgraceful answer.
Anyway, the problem is not really your competences or this particular last article you wrote, but your capacity to comment on a regular basis on the situation. Moreover to complain about what you consider being of lack of communication from the specialists when pretending that Michael’s fan base has the right to know more, where at this particular stage, the only persons who can really claim on information is the family of Michael only.
While trying to help when delivering the information you’re publishing, there are reasons to believe you’re rather counterproductive.
We’re not in the minds of the family members, but they might eventually not like all this publicity and the situation is rather difficult making understandable that any violation of their intimacy through news articles, buses crowded of fans are doing nothing else than putting an extra pressure on their shoulders in a moment where they would rather stay alone.
I do not wish anybody to face any similar situation with a family member being at the hospital and the whole outside world looking at it and commenting it.
Not only the family, but also the specialists and their staff actually taking care of Michael.
Search on Google, and you’ll see that you as an individual are fairly unknown to the whole world, and 90% of the records on your name are reporting about Michael’s accident.
Have you seen Professors Payen, Charbadès and Gay publishing notes as you’re doing yourself ? And theses guys see him everyday, they’re more aware of the situation than you are.
Do you really think they need someone permanently looking after their shoulders commenting every week about the situation ? These guys have wife who are probably getting asked when being at work, they also have kids, who are probably asked when being at school. They also have a kind of pressure in their everyday life because they now have a patient who’s a popular person.
Despite your own pride , people like Massimiliano Biaggi, Ronaldo, Yasser Arafat, Abdelaziz Bouteflika, and another Olympic Ski champion (I forgot the name), they all knocked at one same door, and this wasn’t yours.
For Michael’s case, you seem not having been invited as well to collaborate with your expertise. Neither your colleague Ian Roberts took the freedom of making comments like you do, he rather remained discrete.
It’s strange your blog refers your previous experience as an F1 doc, rather than your current duties in Belgium. Therefore, should I understand that this experience in the competition world was more relevant than what you’re doing actually ? Is what you’re doing today less exciting but you do it because you can feed your family like we all need to do ? By the way, reading at what I can find on Google, it seems that your previous employers lost trust at one particular moment. It this a problem of competence or attitude ?
Take the time you need to post another reply telling I’m a nob/dumb/furstrated or whatever disgraceful comment you might judge appropriate, I’m might not have the time to read them all, I’ve got a full time job.
Dr. Hartstein did not need to show you are a fool. You done it fine.
Scientific reality does not belong to anyone, treating physician or otherwise. Moreover, the scientific method runs on reasonable inferences in the face of incomplete data. That is what hypotheses are all about. It is the duty of all scientists and physicians to speak to the public and offer comment and illumination.
This case is also a case study in public relations, and as such is inherently interesting.
Public figures, moreover, sacrifice much of their privacy rights. It is the price they paid for fame. They can’t retreat into anonymity when misfortune befalls them. Even if they do desire, the public won’t let them.
The media needs guidance and knowledge, as well as access to facts. It would be fabulous if Dr. Hartstein were to formally consult with the international media and give this consultation.
As a scientist I have found his analysis to be logical and crystal clear, precise yet without jargon, and heavily based in experience and training.
Your personal attacks are unpleasant. Please desist.
Dearest Le Midi pile
I cannot understand why you feel to need to attack Dr Hartstein, and constantly try to criticize him for somehow “looking over the shoulders” of the medical team treating Schumacher. Because this is not what Gary is doing at all. What he IS doing, is giving a medical professional’s counter-view on the MEDIA reports that have at best inaccurate, and at worst woefully misleading.
Dr Hartstein has done nothing else but to try and provide all the information that you WON’T find in the media. He offers no criticism or judgement of Schumacher’s ongoing treatment or of those responsible for that treatment.
So I fail to see why you feel the need to criticize Gary for things he has not done and why you feel you must resort to petty insults and attacks on his character. Your comments make no sense in the context of this blog post or of any past blog posts.
I might suggest that you heed Andre Gide’s words; “Most quarrels amplify a misunderstanding” . Perhaps if you were to look at Gary’s post again, you might see exactly what that misunderstanding is.
Le Midi Pile: as far as I can tell Prof Hartstein started this blog because he was receiving a number of requests from people inquiring about aspects of health and safety and medicine in formula one. These requests were made because Prof Hartstein is well known amongst the more knowledgeable formula one fans for his long period of work and research and service in formula one — he has the experience, the expertise, and the willingness and openness to communicate his expertise and insights to the “lay person”. Given that MS is what is considered to be a legend in formula one and given that Prof Hartstein had already started this blog (well before the MS incidence) – it was only natural that he would use this blog to respond to the mass of twitter requests etc in communicating knowledge on head trauma injury, safety gear etc.
There is no evidence to suggest that Prof Hartstein’s blog is anything other than an altruistic response to requests for knowledge in this field. So I reject your main accusation as do others. Of course within the blog there have been one or two occasions where Prof Hartstein has touched on more political and subjective issues that has resulted in a fair response some quite strong – and Prof Hartstein accepted those more critical responses. However perhaps it was in the nature of your “another rude French” comment that elicited a similarly Gallicly expressed response form the Professor.
Anyway you have stated your point. I think on the whole others have rejected your main accusation. But yes you have highlighted some issues that people need to consider when making comments about what the family should or should not do and what the French hospital; should or should not do in terms of communication. However it is fair to comment on medical aspects of this situation including concerns about the medical treatment.
What a shame all your energy and intelligence can’t be put to use for something positive. I’m sure that under different circumstances you’d have actually helped make our planet a better, not just more annoying, place. That said, even malaria must exist for a reason, so I guess the same must be true of you.
You use many too many words to say much too little.
Those who don’t care to read what I write need only not read it.
The deep emotional lives of those caring for Michael are their business, not mine. Although you have once again demonstrated your inability to understand what I write, by failing utterly to notice that I’ve not spoken about, never mind criticise, those working at Grenoble. And while I’m certain they’re breathing a huge sigh of relief at being defended by the likes of you (the Jacques Vergès of the blogosphere eh!), I sleep easy despite all the emotional turmoil you say I’ve caused them!
In the same vein, I rather doubt that Michael’s entourage is upset, unsettled, or bothered by my blog. I’m simply not arrogant enough to think that they’ll find anything here they don’t know already. But if they are, they have means to make that known. Until such time. I’ll write when and what I feel necessary.
It would be more accurate perhaps, given your clear obsession with making some kind of point about the various aspects of my career, if you actually reviewed my CV and spoke to myself, my superiors and colleagues. To that end, I’d first advise that you focus on what it is exactly you’re trying to say. Because clearly you’ve no real idea.
You seem to be dealing with considerable, deep, and strong feelings of your own inadequacy. What’s more, your national pride seems wounded, inexplicably. I can only draw one conclusion, though it pains me to say it.
It must suck being you.
Yes, midi pile the US does have the best doctors in the world. Like it or not. If I were involved in MS’s care I would have consulted US doctors a long time ago if they have not already done so.
Thanks Gary. Another clearly explained dose of reality. It’s regrettable that yours seems to be the only voice of reason in this, but then you are not trying to support the downward sales spiral of the printed press.
Thanks again.
“Downward sales spiral of the printed press”? What exactly does that mean? You’re doubting the printed press?
MS has been in a coma for months….there is no way to sugar coat that. His chances of recovery seem slim….right now one should be most concerned with his survival and not what kind of recovery he may at some point have.
I, for one have appreciated the speculation by the press since the family has refused to keep the public updated. And that, I don’t understand.
It means exactly what it says. Don’t know where you are so it might be different there. I’m in the UK and newspaper sales have been falling off rapidly in recent years. And yes I do doubt the printed press, in the UK at any rate. The standard of “journalism” in this country is appalling. You can appreciate press speculation, that is your right to do so and I wouldn’t say otherwise. Personally I like to deal in facts. My comment was in no way attempting to sugar coat the seriousness of Michael’s plight. I just prefer to listen to what Gary writes here than the made up stories printed by some hack trying to sell papers.
I am in full agreement with you though regarding the lack of official news from the family. Even statements to tell us no change would be better than press speculation.
I just wanted to say a few words to you Mr Hartstein (surely that’s Professor Hartstein at least? 😀 ).
Firstly, I have found your level headed and scientific analysis to be an island of sanity in the media frenzy around Herr Schumacher’s current predicament. I know others who find the constant “He’s fine”/”He’s finished” headlines really distressing, and they too have found your blogs invaluable, both in terms of a balanced picture, and perhaps as confirmation that not everyone is mad.
Also more generally, I’ve always found your F1 insights worth every second I’ve spent soaking them up. I was a massive fan of the Prof. and a video of yours I watched recently, actually got me off my backside to read his books, which I’d been promising to do for years (currently approaching the end of the first one and loving it)…..I may try to save the second one for my next surgical visit to hospital.
You, Prof, Mr Moseley (who I have often found myself despising) and Bernie have saved so many lives directly or indirectly that it’s staggering.
Lastly, let me just say that I am deeply dismayed, and no less baffled than yourself, by President Todt’s treatment of you and of the entire safety culture that you and the Prof. had worked so hard to instil in F1 and motor racing in general. Let’s just leave that by saying I didn’t much care for him in his previous job either 😉
Keep up the good work, your insight, knowledge and good sense are appreciated by many, many people, far and wide.
As someone who’s family was the subject of a newspaper story that was with one very minor exception a complete fabrication I can tell you that reporters do indeed enhance the facts to (in our case) get a story and a byline. This was a human interest story, no harm was done, no one was libeled, insulted, or demeaned but it was a good lesson in ethics for a 13 year old who tended to believe everything he read in the newspaper.
From bbc news sport section “Michael is still in the wake-up phase,” …this is frankly insulting to the caring public. Better to either say nothing at all or say “we have no updates”…one doesn’t have to google very long or read Gary’s analysis to realize that comment is BS and insulting to those who care
I have direct experience of the situation Schumacher’s family are in at this point: No doctor ever used the language being quoted in the press when we were going though the same situation. Doctors dont do ‘hope’ or ‘miracles’. They are scientists. There situation is desperate. Although I’ve never met anyone who knows gone through this, I can empathise like no one else. Its a horrible place to be. As always, newspapers & media will only make their situation worse.
I was “happy,” if you can call it that, to find Gary’s blog to read accurate, experienced commentary about TBIs such as suffered by MS, and educated comments about what *might* be happening based on personal experience. After seeing what happened with actress Natasha Richardson, though circumstances were different, I knew it was *not* hopeful for Michal–though occasionally people do recover, such as Kevin Pearce.
Speaking as a former journalist, I would like to explain “scoop mentality,” and story formatting. First, the reporter does not write the headline. The editor writes the headline, and the editor is looking for the punchy line that will bring in readers. It can be truthful and accurate, or it can be nothing but an unethical trick. But the reporter does not control this.
Secondly, “scoop mentality” comes from wanting to be first with the information at any cost, or to find a new angle to report so that the information *appears* new. X paper said this, but Y paper said *this*, and I choose to follow Y as opposed to X. That kind of thinking. This is what we see happening with multiple reports, especially when various papers are cannibalizing stories first printed by others.
Kehm is very likely being told what she can say, and what she can’t say. I doubt this is her decision. I, personally, would be far more interested in what the doctors have to say, but they aren’t talking. this, too, would be at the family’s request.
Lastly, Gary was a Formula 1 doctor, and he knows MS. He would not wish to sensationalize this terrible accident. But he grasps how much fans care–and he understands the reality of the situation.
I think the situation is looking pretty hopeless in terms of Michael being the Michael he was before the accident, we lost the Michael we know and love on the slopes that day, only hope is after long term care and therapy that he can lead some sort of dignified life.
But however, i do not believe the Telegraph reports, if the damage was such that the doctors could do nothing more for him at the hospital he would be moved to a long term care facility, he has the funds to be able to have the worlds best care. The ICU at Grenoble does not have unlimited number of beds, they would not allow Schumacher to occupy a bed for the sake of it, while he is in that bed another gravely injured person is turned away. While he is there he is clearly there because doctors believe they can do something for him.
Good point well made, chris
I have to disagree Chris. Just because he is in hospital doesn’t necessarily mean they can do something to improve his situation. You can’t discharge someone unless there is somewhere to discharge them to that will meet their needs. This can take a considerable time to sort out, particularly if someone’s needs are significant. That’s assuming the family are in agreement with the medical team’s prognosis (assuming reports we hear are essentially accurate). And who could blame them if they wanted to get other opinions? The medical team are hardly going to refuse are they? This all takes time.
Maybe they’re not so far down this route yet, but its probably coming.
Well said Chris
Excuse me for missing your appellation twice, Dr. Hartstein. Hastiness.
This entire tragedy would have a comic aspect in other circumstances. News sources quote each other and so on down the line until the “first” source quotes itself. They can’t be blamed for doing that, though. In *theory* personal privacy may trump fame in life or death situations but in practice it is a disaster. The nature of news abhors a vacuum, so we have a textbook case of information chaos. Someone should, seriously, write this epic up as a journalism thesis.
News sources *can* be blamed however for not knowing the basic science or medicine before they speak. A cursory glance at this blog would show how inept and misleading a headline is that declares that Mr. Schumacher “might not recover *fully*.” (emphasis mine). As Mr. Hartstein has clarified, the issue won’t be whether recover is full or not, until some basic questions are resolved. Ventilatory weaning is for all the marbles now. After that, “archaic” responses as Mr. Hartstein colorfully indicates; after that, walking and talking and remembering what you ate for dinner. Yet no news source, to my knowledge, has either explained, wondered publically, or found real evidence on the first question, much less the last.
Equally inconsistent with Dr. Hartstein’s analysis is the repetition, heard in every other headline, that Mr. Schumacher is (still) in a “medically induced” coma. Dr. Hartstein it would seem put the idea to rest that sedation would likely continue past five weeks post injury. For what end? ICP is either resolved or will never be I guess. And as for the “waking up process” I thought it was clear that when the sedation is stopped, there isn’t much medical witchcraft to do except wait and hope the patient wakes up.
So its totally understandable how the media must fill in the blank with something, but sound medical analysis is just a few keystrokes away, i.e. here. I urge the press to press the right keys.
Norwood S. Wilner
Reblogged this on eagleash.
Even if Michael is breathing on his own he is far from out of the woods it would appear. If this is the case then what about the quality of life he will have? How desirable would it be to continue to administer life sustaining treatment to someone in a vegetative or minimally conscious state?
I read somewhere that the family were seeking the advice of doctors outside of Grenoble. If true, this suggests that they don’t like what they may have been told and are seeking a more ‘acceptable’ prognosis. Being charitable, this may explain why no news is forthcoming. If the time comes I so hope decisions about Michael’s future aren’t made based on emotion. I wouldn’t like to see him end up like Ariel Sharon.
If the medical team come to a point where they have done all they can to assist Michael and can do no more then I presume they will be looking at a long term care facility unless other decisions are taken.
If he can make some sort of recovery, I just hope its a damn good one and takes into account his wishes, whatever they may be.
Don’t be so negative SarahFi
Hi Jan,
I don’t think that SarahFi’s opinion expressed any information that was factually negative. She did not refuse or deny anything. She was not unpleasant or disagreeable; nor was she gloomy or pessimistic, unfavorable, detrimental, hostile, disparaging or malicious.
She was expressing her thoughts and feelings and like you, she has every right to do so. Whether we agree with anyone’s opinion, is up to us, and, let us not forget that opinions are not necessarily facts, that we do not need to use words to dismiss or cut anyone off. There is already too much of that in the world today. You are intelligent. You can do better.
KC
No comprende, sorry! I’m a bit dim and over 60!
I’ve been reading your blog posts since MSC’s accident having found your blog via a tweet by the BBC’s Andrew Benson. The quality of your blog posts puts the national newspapers to shame! Thank you for continuing to write them.
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2014/03/michael-schumacher-breathing-by-himself-todt-speaking-to-him-in-english/
This article is very interesting. James Allen is a very reputable source of information. I’m prepared to believe what’s on written here.
Thank you for this Andrew. This is entirely consistent with my previous comments and consistent with what the Family have said via Sabine Kehm. I would say that the weight of the reliable evidence is that MS is now breathing unaided.
Really!!?
Massa now Todt versus exaggeration of “leaks”.
Having read the James Allen article again – it is a con and I confess I was taken in by it. So apologies all round. It has juxtaposed two unconnected statements: “Michael Schumacher breathing by himself: Todt speaking to him in English”
Reading the article carefully the MS breathing statement is from an Italian newspaper quoting an “undisclosed source” while the Jean Todt statement is entirely unrelated. The way the article is crafted it appears that Todt is saying that MS is breathing.
James Allen has crafted a purposely misleading article hence it seems that James Allen is one of those gutter press journalists.
So it is just the Massa statement that indicates that MS was breathing unaided. All other quotes are from unspecified sources.
I have been trying to find the interview where Massa is quoted as saying Schumacher looked normal & his mouth moved – but all I am finding is indirect quotes and evidence of bad journalism. There is no direct quote from Massa I can find. All I can find are media and newspapers quoting the German Tabloid Bild quoting Massa (rather than Massa directly). The BBC interview of Massa says nothing about “normal” and nothing about “mouth moving”.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/26276835
Having now seen how journalists operate in quoting other journalists quoting unspecified sources it seems to me Massa’s supposed quote of “mouth moving” and “normal” is unproven, and if true has likely been taken out of context.
The other thing I have noticed about “journalist” reports is how they will juxtapose unconnected statements to give a misleading impression, and how they will use old parts of statements that may have been taken in January to give the impression that the statements were more recent.
If we take all these unproven journalistic statements out, we are not left with much – just the Sabine Kehm statements, the statements of the doctors treating MS, and statements of people connected with MS that have been captured on film (such as the BBC Massa interview). Timescales are also important, i.e. being certain when statements were made – in order to establish chronology.
In addition we have the expertise of Gary Hartstein plus insights from some of the commentators.
Hence I retract my previous statement about the weight of “evidence” points towards MS breathing unaided. It is impossible to tell whether MS is breathing on his own or not. What is clear is that MS has not woken up and he suffered a very serious head trauma injury back in late December and we have the Gary Hartstein expert reflections.
So basically it means we have to wait for official news. Apart from that we have the statistics for recovery – but statistics apply to the “general case” … whereas each case (such as MS) is specific and may diverge from the “general”. Personally all I can do is try to be respectful of the wishes of the family, wait for official news, and learn about head trauma and the brain.
As always, you give some much needed clarity to this particular circus, Doc. Whenever I read of a head line regarding Shcumacher;s condition; I wait a while and then visit here to see if you have anything to say on the matter,
Having to tell patients and their family members the stark realities of any situation, must be one of the most difficult jobs any medical professional has to perform. I just wish the press would be AS professional (Hah! Now that WOULD require a miracle) as yourself and other medical staff and refrain from stories meant only sell papers or increase web traffic.
I have no candle to hold for Sabine Kehm, indeed until this all started I had not even heard of her … I always though Michael Schumacher’s manager was Willi Weber … but an official “Spokesperson” for someone CANNOT speak unless given explicit permission to do so, and is also by and large told what to say.
Sabine’s remarks, or lack of them, are almost certainly driven by the Schumacher family, all of whom have a proven track record of being very prickly with the press. Let’s give her a break.
Dear Gary
I discovered your blog last December and have read all your posts since then, but I think this might be the 1st time I write here
I agree with you that doctors should never use such words, but I am afraid I wouldn’t be as sure as you that they never do
25 years ago I have been victim of an extremely serious accident and, among other things, nearly had to be amputated from a leg
I was taken to Gasthuisberg ( that you should know as you work in my country ), and there while I was waiting for one of the many surgeries I had to undergo in a corridor, lying on my bed, an old nurse, who happened to also be a nun, walked by, saw me and the condition in which I was, and stopped to tell me “you are lucky because the lord must love you so much to make you go through such trials”, and then moved on !
I am sure she meant it well, but being an atheist I can tell you that her words were a real shock for me, and that if I had been in a better condition I would have run after her to let her know of my opinion about that…
I have also known a time when the only contraceptive pill female medical students graduating from UCL had ever heard of was the one they were using themselves…
I now live and work in Turkey, and have worked in Saudi in the past, and I would rather be surprised if NO doctor would ever use such concepts in their relationships with their patients
but of course, even if I have no information or even idea of the kind of hospital schumacher is being treated in, and likewise for his doctors, it would be more surprising if this would happen in france where laicity is so important
Stephan
Thank you again Gary for a clear and informative post. It is such a pleasure to read your blogs and relieve some of the frustration and confusion of the media stories and the the total lack of information from MS Management (of which I still believe borders on treating concerned fans with contempt ). What would we do without you?
Firstly, I want to add my voice of appreciation to the author of this blog. While understanding that he, like the rest of the world, is basing his thoughts and opinions on conjecture in this specific situation, his is a most welcome analysis based on knowledge and experience, rather than a desire to sensationalize. This website is the one that I check first each and every morning, hoping for an update that contains positive news.
That hope has been dimming over the recent weeks and, sadly, is now all but gone for me. As the doctor mentioned in a previous article, I can’t believe that positive news would be withheld from the world, which leaves us either with the conclusion that the news is either poor or unchanged, neither of which bode well. I can only hope that the entirety of MS’s care team are able to communicate information to the family as clearly and compassionately as this blog does to the wider population of the world.
My thoughts and prayers continue to go out to Michael and his family, as well as the others who are devastated by the same type of injuries every day.
I can not understand why this socalled ” Manager” does not inform Michael’s fans who are waiting for some reliable infos about him. I think this is absolutely wrong and almost arrogant.
Kelm has absolutely NO compassion for Michaels fans. I found this out the hard way, f2f, long before Michael’s tragedy. Can anyone say ” CONTROL FREAK ” ????
Don’t keep us in suspense darling, do tell !
Personally, I feel that Kehm is treating Michael’s fans with contempt. I fear the worst, but I continue to hope I’m wrong. But until some ‘official’ information is forthcoming, we won’t know either way. I appreciate that whatever we fans feel isn’t a patch on what Michael’s family is going through, and I don’t blame them at all, since they obviously won’t be in any state to deal with the public, or even think about that. All they care about is their husband / father / brother / son, not Michael the international superstar, and my heart goes out to them. Kehm, on the other hand, is the official PR person and while I understand that the privacy of Michael’s family comes first, I can’t see how it would harm their privacy just for her to give some honest information to the public as to what Michael’s condition truly is. We may not be his family, but we do care, and we really would like to know what his outlook truly is.
Yes- I agree , and I am sorry tht my English is not good enough to express much better what I would like to say. Fans all around the world are full of hope and fear and sadness, they are waiting for a few words of this PR – woman…it’s totally wrong how she Deals with this.
Mr Draxter, I agree whole heartily in what you have said. Sabine has no liking at all for Michael’s fans, She said this in an interview about 10 years ago
Jan, please, at your earliest convenience, find this article, links to it or at least the publication details, so we can have the quotes. If she is on record expressing contempt for the fans, then there may be those who can bring influence to account for this … if it’s in the public record.
Cheers.
I really don’t understand this interminable talk of degrees of recovery, miracles, of the lack of information, the doctors saying this and the family doing that, as well as all the criticism of Sabine Kehm.
We are past all that, or if we are not we are simply sticking our heads in the sands of denial and fantasy.
Gary has made the gravity of the situation and the timescale of the reasonable expectation of progress crystal clear some time ago and a raft of (may I say) equally eminent doctors have said exactly the same thing.
I joined in the chorus of “we want/have a right to/demand” news when news was scarce. and when the chance of recovery, however defined and to whatever degree, was still an outside possibility.
But we are beyond that now I feel. And it is time for us to withdraw and try and understand what the family are going through, the decisions confronting them and the effects it will have on their lives.
I suspect the Michael Schumacher “sportsman” “legend” and all the rest of the hyperbole doesn’t even cross their minds for an instant. Michael Schumacher – “Daddy”, “husband”, “brother” and “son” is what matters now … as the slow, reluctant. appalling realisation of the reality of a future without that Michael slowly sinks in.
Lars has got it spot on … and it’s all about the family now. Whatever they do and however they play it is fine by me.
And Sabine Kehm and her monosyllabic comments? To be frank, she is the hired help, charming as she is. I am surprised given the worsening situation, she has managed to get as much out as she has given the track record the Schumachers always have had for complete family privacy.
Peter – I completely agree. Frankly, this has been quite tragic from the get go and along the way as well. I am not a doc but come from a family of them. That being said, the first clue was “without the helmet…” and in my reading/research, the “experts” comments, and Gary’s Blogs, this tragedy never really progressed beyond that. I am not saying that I did not carry hope for a good outcome, I still do. I am simply saying that very early on, after I heard, …”the most catastrophic bran scan I have ever seen…” (referring to Michael’s), I put my “hope” in an emotional perspective.
The most difficult part of this journey, aside from M.S.’s family, has to be carried on Dr. Gary’s shoulders. He is the one, even with sketchy information, who is in the, somewhat, know even though he has no first hand information or direct involvement with patient or family. I feel for him and am so grateful that he has been so willing and so open with all of us on this journey. Even though he has been left out, he never has left us out. My appreciation and gratitude he will always have.
I also want to thank you for your insight and sensitivity too. I still have fingers crossed and I do believe in miracles. I also deal in reality and honesty. Thank you for yours.
KC
KC, great post, which took me on a flight of fancy: given Doc’s obvious well-spoken/writtenness, can you imagine how much more reassuring – or at least not-frustratingly incomplete, cynical or manipulative reporting on Schumacher’s condition could’ve been if the family had retained him as an official “communicator” for them w/ the press?
Joe Papp
Thank you for the complement. Dr.Gary would still be tied-up with privacy issues, however my guess would be that his input to the family might be more sensitive, even possibly persuasive, to plight of the fans who are on this seemingly endless desert running toward every mirage hoping for an oasis.
I assure you Peter, charming is not a word that describes Sabine Kehm.
Are you serious, Peter?
My Dad died the day before my 14th birthday leaving my mom a widow, and my brother and me fatherless.There was no media interest and likewise, no millions of fans expressing their support and encouragement – we suffered miserably upon our own and were left to fend for ourselves emotionally, spiritually and psychologically. And there definitely wasn’t a fortune of nearly a billion dollars to see us comfortably through the rest of our lives w/o Dad but also w/o a financial/material worry of any kind!!
All due sympathy to the Schumacher family, but the degree to which you’re canonizing them and Michael here and suggesting that were he to die, it would be so much more incomprehensible for us mere mortals than what we experienced when our own fathers died in the prime of their lives is offensive.
The Schumacher family will experience grief, just like millions of other families experience – except the suffering and deprivation and decline that typically follows the death of a family’s primary breadwinner will be massively tempered by a global outpouring of support and access to boundless resources that will ensure no need EVER goes unmet for the Schumacher family.
Having grown up without a father (or an emotionally-whole mother) and still managed to obtain a university education and become a journeyman pro athlete, were I now me from then, I would trade scenarios with any of the Schumacher kids w/o a second’s hesitation. Even fatherless they’ll continue to enjoy opportunities that simply don’t exist for the majority of us.
Joe… A very difficult and emotional story to share. Thank you. KC
Thank you for this comment!
Yes Mr Papp, I am entirely serious.
You have either misunderstood my comments completely. or have chosen to misconstrue them to your own ends. Even by the most loosely defined definition of the word, I have not “canonised” the Schumacher family in any shape or form, albeit admiring Michael’s achievements, particularly being as he is and by his own admission, someone of modest background.
I have merely expressed the opinion that the choices they face at the moment (I repeat ‘at the moment’) are ones that are by any definition tragic and difficult, heightened possibly for them by the fact that Michael spent 20 years of his life participating unscathed in arguably the most dangerous sport on earth, only to be bought down doing such an everyday activity as skiing.
But if you think that money and fame make an iota of difference to the Schumacher family right at the moment, I suggest are much mistaken.
I congratulate you on your considerable achievements in life and regret the tragedy you experienced as a child.
Gary, I wonder if you have unfortunately not considered the possibility that all you have described has been said generally as you suggest to the family, but the family has not “heard” it; and, continues to hope against hope that Michael will “recover” despite the facts. Against these “facts”, the family presses the medical staff by asking “isn’t there some remote possibility of recovery” and that could elicit the “miracle” response (i.e. “it would take a miracle”).
Sadly, I suspect that “miracles” are all Michael has left.
Yesterday, I watched a movie called The Diving Bell and the Butterfly. A true story, a tragic story. I would hope the outcome of the Michael Schumacher tragedy would not mimic this movie. “Locked in syndrome” has to be the worst fate one could experience. Not saying that is the case or could be the case with MS.
When someone lies in a comatose or vegetative state for months, years you have to question God’s reasoning.
My view is that this is an exaggeration of something that was said on 2nd March. The family have made it clear they will only comment once MS is out of the wake-up phase & they have confidence that MS will wake-up. It is inferred that they won’t comment on whether MS is or is not on a respirator as that is just part of the wake-up phase.
I think it’s incredibly trashy of the newspapers to publish this sort of garbage. To me it suggests, “If we all close our eyes and pray REALLY hard, God will make Schumi get better. Oops… guess someone’s not praying hard enough…”. The implication is that any decision the family makes, no matter how logical and well founded, is giving up hope or failing to contact God.
I really detest the way sensationalist media uses spirituality to hype up the public. All it does is leave families wondering if they made the wrong decision with regards to their injured relatives for the rest of their lives. Well, actually, I guess it also sells papers, which appears to be their highest priority.
I think today’s examples of the conflicting ‘news’ stories (Michael breathing on his own v miracle needed) sums up the need for some official hard facts to be released to stop the stupidity.
Sabine Khem can bleat as much as she likes with regards to us ignoring unofficial news stories but unless she becomes a damn sight more proactive in her PR management, we fans have no other choice but to read whatever is available which is distressing for us all when we actually have no idea what is fact, fiction or downright lies. No one wants to intrude on Michael’s family but the PR management is a different matter and it is up to Sabine to deal with this.
I think if we were to have a straw poll, a lot of us fans are fearing the worst.
MartineF, well said.
Khem’s cynical manipulation of the news – to serve whatever the real purpose (perhaps business/sponsorship related) – show great contempt for the fans who interest in Schumacher ultimately afforded his family the hundreds of millions of dollars they’re now tapping to stifle coverage of Michael’s treatment/recovery.
About 5 hours ago, reports are coming in that Michael is now breathing on his own without the help of a respirator. Not a miracle, but it’s always darkest before the dawn. Maybe dawn is upon us?
The telegraph story is based on a claim on something that was said on 2nd March. So the Telegraph story is old “news”. The family have already responded MS is still in the wake up phase. If MS was breathing without waking up then the family said they wouldn’t comment. They will only comment once MS is out of the wake-up stage.
I have a question about brain stem function: if there is truth to the rumour that he had, and fought off, pneumonia a few weeks ago, does that mean that the brain stem is not irretrievably damaged that there is no communication to the body? Or is that sort of healing not connected to the brain at all?
Thank you for your efforts, it really does mean a lot to us Schumi fans.
If Michael is to recover then god willing it’s to a standard where he can look after himself, it’s so very sad, I feel for his whole family, he gave so much to sporting life. I just want some hard facts now, it’s becoming a joke, no good news means it’s bad or does it, who knows..! Sad all round..
Thank you Mr. Hartstein for a ‘balanced’ viewpoint; the brain has always to balance itself and seems as though your offerings pay homage to that. We all pray I’m sure for Michael – and his family – before sleeping last night sent a prayer up for Michael. I often do think of him and remember a period in my life when formula one was an exciting anticipated event for a former partner – and I was a big fan of Michael…or Shui to his fans; although I didn’t know much about F1 we would share in Michael’s success; love to him and his family.
I believe/respect every word Gary writes more than any press story and very sadly, I believe Gary more then Sabine Kehm, who quite frankly deserves no respect at all..
Agree !! I do not respect the way this “PR “- woman behaves. Michael is not a No – name person, he is one of the greatest Sports men ever and one of the most beloved. So she should not treat his Fans all around the world like idiots.
John, you have no idea how true your last statement is. And Yes, I do know her.
I pretty much take everything written in the tabloids on this with a pinch of salt – yet there is one way to stop all these stories and that would be to tell us what is actually going on…..
I agree with you 100% Stephanie. You’d think that by now they would see how cruel it’s been to keep us all in the dark.
Oh God allmighty… All this so called news are getting really silly…. From reacting to enviroment to disasterous…. I almost have a wish to fall asleep for 6 months and then wake up, drink my morning coffe and then go to Garys site and check out how things worked out for Michael and his familiy…Hopefully for the best! Thanks again to Gary for bringing a lot of common sense to all that conundrum!
Thank you once again for your honest, well written and informative post. If only the media could bring themselves to write like this instead of the trashy, useless tripe they are writing.
Thoughts as always with Michael & his family, hope we hear some positive news soon x
Gary, just wanted to say thank you. I have been following your blog daily, disregarding any news sources which are reporting on Michael and coming here for any new information. Appreciate the time it takes you to write your posts and inform us all. Also, as a side note, I really think you should include a link to your interview with Mario Muth in your “About Gary” section. It was so well produced and the information you shared would be fascinating to any F1 fan, or anyone interested in your personal story. For those interested, just search youtube for “Gary Hartstein – I was just a Doctor”
Thank you, Gary, for everything!
Awesome idea. Honesty didn’t think of it. Fun for me but great for Mario, who I think is immensely talented.
Oh, yeah, that interview was really something! I wouldnt mind if it was 5 hours long, There is also one with Murray Walker, that one is superb to… It was just great to see what your own thougts were, not only answers to random questions…
I see this Telegraph report is searching everywhere to report on reported claims reportedly.
MS needs … doctors reportedly tell his family
Doctors treating MS & other medical experts have told his family … sources have claimed.
Sources close to his family say [Family …] have been consulting brain specialists …
The family is said to be concerned …
Experts point out …
MS management team has insisted … “wake up” phase … spokeswoman Sabine Kehm
However sources close to his family say …
A senior German journalist reporting on MS said …
Another source added: …
Germany’s Focus magazine reported … MS management team denied the report.
Coma experts have stressed …
However last Sunday, MS family is reported to have …
Doctors say …
Gary Hartstein, a former Formula One doctor told the German media last week: …
The Daily Telegraph does claim to be a serious newspaper – not a Tabloid. They claim that there is at least two sources close to the family. A “senior German Journalist” is also quoted.
The earliest report in the British Press seems to be from the Daily Express with other newspapers following.
”
However sources speaking to papers in his native Germany have painted a gloomier picture.
One senior German journalist said: “He is in terrible shape but until the family issue a statement we cannot write about it. “The family have, we are told, been informed that only a miracle can bring him back now.” ….
The source said: “On Sunday his wife Corinna spent her 45th birthday at his bedside with their children Gina Marie and Mick, his brother Ralf and his father Rolf Schumacher.
“They talked and talked and prayed for him to acknowledge their presence.
“But he remains comatose with tubes feeding him, supplying him with air, giving him medicine and removing waste from his body. “The doctors have given it to them straight. There is little hope left that he will come out of this. “Miracles happen, of course, and as a wealthy man he has the best care money can buy. “But all the money in the world cannot fix what has happened to him.” Gary Hartstein, a former F1 doctor, echoed this. Writing on Sunday, …
”
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/463563/Michael-Schumacher-still-in-coma-despite-reports-he-is-breathing-independently
So it seems to me this story is a reproduction of news coming from a “senior German Journalist” quoting A source close to the family making the claim that the family have been told that there is “little hope” and it seems to be the source that talks about “miracles can happen” and not the doctors. It is inferred that this conversation took place on Corinna’s Birthday on 2nd March.
I should note this story seems to have broke or was in the process of breaking before Sabine Kehm made her latest comment (this story originated in Germany). And please note this is referring to comments supposedly made on 2nd March.
Hence the very recent comment from the family:
“Michael is still in the wake-up phase,” said his manager Sabine Kehm in a statement on Friday. “The situation has not changed.”
is their response to this story.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/26479162
Jason, please don’t stop posting/commenting.
WHAT!!!!! …. is this supposed to be funny or clever???? As much as I appreciate the links, your post(s) are really very confusing. Your point being?????????
To Liza: I didn’t realise my comments were having such an effect. I thought their meaning was self evident. But this seems like a good time for me to stop.
Gary thanks very much for your, as usual, very detailed and concise blog. I never know how much of these newspaper story’s to believe, especially today, when there are conflicting stories (i.e. needs miracle and that he may be breathing on his own). It is such a sad situation, I am still in shock to be honest that this could have happened to Michael, he has been my fav F1 driver since 1995, he has been a constant throughout my life since then, but I can’t begin to imagine how hard this must be for his family and friends and my heart goes out to them. Forza Schumi
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You cut through all the media speculation so effectively. Wish newspapers could bring themselves to write so honestly.
Superb stuff as always, Gary. Once again, it’s thanks to you that we can get a firmer understanding of events and activities in this extremely delicate situation.